Question Your Thoughts: ByronKatie's Method for Freedom

Aug 19, 2017

10 min read

Byron Katie, in this interview with Vanessa Jane Patrick, explains that suffering is directly tied to believing unquestioned thoughts, particularly those that oppose our true nature. Through a practice called "the Work"—a systematic inquiry method—individuals can examine their thoughts, lose their grip on negative narratives, and access the clarity and wisdom that naturally resides beneath mental clutter. Katie describes how this isn't about controlling thoughts or achieving a special state, but rather about understanding the mechanics of belief itself. When the mind stops fighting reality and questioning its assumptions, it becomes capable of authentic success, creativity, and peace.

How Suffering Is Created by Belief, Not Circumstance

Katie's insight emerged from her own crisis. She describes spending nearly a decade in clinical depression, lying on the floor one morning in deep sleep when a cockroach crawled across her foot. In that moment of waking, all the suffering vanished. What she recognized instantly was the mechanism: "When I believed my thoughts I suffered and when I didn't believe them there was no suffering." This observation became the foundation of her understanding that suffering is not inherent to circumstances, but arises only when the mind accepts false or limiting narratives about reality.

She extends this principle universally: "This is true for every human being—when we believe our thoughts we suffer, when we don't believe our thoughts we don't suffer." The distinction she emphasizes is crucial: she refers to "thoughts that go against the heart," the narratives that separate us from our true nature. The Work is not about suppressing thoughts or achieving a mind without thoughts; it's about recognizing which thoughts are true and aligned with reality, and which are merely conditioned patterns or assumptions.

Katie points to Socrates' observation that "an unexamined life is not worth living," affirming this as the philosophical foundation for her practice. If we live according to unquestioned beliefs, we are fundamentally asleep to reality. The antidote is systematic inquiry.

What Is the Work? A Method of Questioning Beliefs

The Work is Katie's name for a structured meditation practice rooted in inquiry. It is not a belief system to adopt, but a tool for examining beliefs already present. The method invites people to identify thoughts that are depressing, enemy-making, or sadness-producing, then ask specific questions about them.

The practice begins with writing. Katie emphasizes: "Write it down on paper." This externalization moves the thought from the implicit background of the mind into explicit, visible form. Once written, the thought becomes available for examination. The Work itself consists of four questions, though Katie does not detail all four in this excerpt. However, the interview reveals the underlying intent: to investigate whether a belief is objectively true, who we are when we believe it, and who we would be without it.

Katie describes the effect: "If I question those thoughts they lose their power." This does not mean the thoughts disappear, but rather that belief in them dissolves. She offers a concrete example: if someone holds the thought "This person doesn't care about me," the Work would examine that assumption. Through inquiry, the person realizes the thought is not about them but about the other person's own beliefs and limits. Katie explains: "They don't know me so it's not about me. If they believe they don't like me, for example, that's about them and what they're believing about me, so that is not personal with me."

The shift is profound. Instead of suffering from the thought, the mind understands it. Understanding dissolves the emotional charge and the false sense of separation. As Katie notes, the thought "ceases to be a negative experience" and "ceases to be a thought in my head that I even want to get rid of." There is no longer a battle with the thought; it simply loses relevance.

From Reactivity to Creativity: How Inquiry Clears the Path

When Vanessa asks how to have a "more creative, fabulous life," Katie's answer connects directly to the removal of mental clutter through inquiry. "Every time we question our mind," she says, "there's less fake news in the way, fewer things that are not true for us. Inquiry clears the junk out of the mind. In that space of clarity, the choices we make are brilliant."

This is not about thinking positively or motivating oneself. Katie is describing a mechanical shift: remove the obstacles (false beliefs), and wisdom naturally appears. She explains: "In that space of clarity, the choices we make are brilliant. They come out of knowledge and pure creativity and they're doable. And the directions are all there."

The obstacle is what she calls the "false self"—the accumulated ego narratives, the "I, I, I, me, me, me" that clutters consciousness. These stories keep the mind contracted, defensive, and cut off from the underlying wisdom that "is always there." Katie emphasizes: "Questioning our thoughts is how we give wisdom enough space to reveal itself to us. It's just waiting for an open mind."

Success, in this framework, is not about hustle or positive thinking. It emerges from a mind that is unobstructed, grounded in truth rather than assumption. Creativity flows from clarity, not from willpower.

Identity Without Attachment to Thought

Vanessa raises a foundational question: if we don't identify with our thoughts, then what is our identity? This question points to a real concern—aren't our thoughts and our sense of self the same thing?

Katie's response is subtle. She acknowledges: "We're not left with much and we're left with a lot." The apparent paradox resolves when she explains how identity actually functions in relationship. "If my husband says 'I love you,' then what he's thinking and believing about me is the person I am to him. My children the same. My friends the same. People in my life the same. What they are thinking and believing about me becomes my identity within them."

In other words, identity is not a fixed, internal possession but a relational phenomenon. Each person in our life holds a separate structure of identity for us, based on what they think and believe. "Each identity is held as a separate structure by everyone who knows me. That's a lot of identities!" Katie notes with some lightness.

For her own internal reference, Katie describes: "When I see me in my mind's eye in a situation from the past, that is not me. That's not my identity; that's an image. I am the one here speaking to you now, and that's all the identity I need to hold on to for the moment."

She points toward an even deeper dimension: "When a mind is at home with itself, no identity is necessary. The mind is just wide open to everything, because that's what love is." In this state, there is no clinging to a self-concept. There is simply presence, clarity, and responsiveness. This is not a state to achieve or grasp, but rather what remains when the false structures dissolve.

The Role of Anger and Difficult Emotions as Teachers

Katie discusses anger and difficult emotions not as problems to solve but as signals. She notes that when anger or upset arises in a relationship—with a partner, for instance—these feelings point to a belief that deserves investigation. "Anytime I'm angry," she says, "my partner is showing me something." The emotion is not the enemy; it's information. It indicates that a limiting belief is active and available for questioning.

This reframes relationship conflict entirely. Rather than conflict being a sign of incompatibility or hurt, it becomes an opportunity for self-knowledge. The other person is, in effect, showing us where our mind is still contracted by unexamined assumptions. Katie suggests that a partner's behavior that triggers us is "a push that needs to happen," inviting us to wake up to a false belief we're holding.

The Prison and What Awakening Looks Like

Katie references her work in prisons, where she has conducted inquiry sessions with incarcerated men. Vanessa mentions hearing Katie say she had not had a negative thought in years and that she had "left the world of duality." Katie clarifies that this is not about suppressing thoughts or achieving a transcendent state, but rather the natural result of ongoing practice. As beliefs that contradict reality are questioned and released, they cease to arise. The mind, no longer defending false positions, becomes free.

In the prison context, Katie demonstrates that the Work is accessible to anyone, regardless of circumstance. The mechanism of suffering and freedom is the same whether one is incarcerated or free, wealthy or poor, famous or unknown. Inquiry is the great equalizer because it requires nothing but willingness to examine one's own mind.

Meditation as Daily Practice

Katie describes the Work as a meditation practice, not a one-time insight or technique. She invites people to "daily practice" where limiting thoughts are identified and questioned. This consistency is essential. The mind's conditioning runs deep, and the Work is cumulative. Each time a belief is questioned and its power dissolves, the mind becomes freer and more available.

This is not a mystical or religious practice, though Katie acknowledges some people come to it from a religious background. It is accessible to anyone willing to examine their own mind. The Work is offered freely at thework.com with worksheets and instructions in multiple languages.

What Happens When the Mind Is at Home with Itself?

Katie's vision is of a mind that is no longer at war with itself, no longer defending false positions or resisting reality. She describes this in her forthcoming book titled A Mind at Home with Itself. In such a state, there is no fear, no separation, no depletion of energy in internal conflict. The mind is "just wide open to everything."

This is not blankness or passivity. Rather, it is maximum responsiveness. With the static of false beliefs cleared, the mind can perceive what is actually true and respond appropriately. Creativity, wisdom, and authentic success naturally emerge. As Katie says: "It's a much kind of world" when one knows what the alternative is—the hell of believing in lies.

Personal Responsibility and Freedom

Katie emphasizes that this framework grants complete responsibility and therefore complete freedom: "The only thing in this world that has hurt me is what I'm thinking and believing about me, about you, about my world. So that gives me 100% control and responsibility for my world, for my life, for me."

This is radically empowering. We are not victims of circumstances or other people's behavior. We are not trapped by brain chemistry or trauma. The suffering comes from believing thoughts that are not true. Question the thoughts, and the suffering dissolves. The path is simple, though the practice requires honesty and willingness.

Where to go from here

Katie invites anyone with an open mind to begin the Work. The worksheets and detailed instructions are available for free at thework.com. Begin by identifying a thought that causes distress, write it down, and ask the four questions. Notice what happens when you genuinely investigate whether the thought is true. The Work is not about adopting new beliefs but about testing your existing ones against reality. Each time a false belief is released, you are left with more freedom, clarity, and access to your natural wisdom. The practice is simple but requires honest self-inquiry. As Katie suggests, there is no prohibition, no barrier, no cost—only the willingness to look at what you actually believe and whether it is true.

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Transcript

[0:00] Hey hello Katie how's Vanessa I'm well

[0:05] unwell great good to see you

[0:08] wonderful to see you I'm super excited

[0:11] to to get to meet you and connect with

[0:13] you and dive into your amazing wisdom

[0:16] and share that with our audience and yes

[0:19] so just wanting to really welcome you to

[0:21] the limitless potential podcast and I

[0:24] was such a pleasure to have you thank

[0:26] you thank you for the amazing

[0:29] opportunity just to share maybe

[0:32] something helpful for people

[0:35] definitely definitely annual beautiful

[0:37] by the way

[0:37] well thank you thank you thank you you

[0:43] know it's one of those things I can say

[0:44] you know I had absolutely nothing to do

[0:46] with that's all that's amazing and maybe

[0:54] I would absolutely you know I've been

[0:56] following your work for a few years now

[0:58] and just constantly and reminded and

[1:02] getting insights and allies and sharing

[1:05] that with my clients and our audience

[1:08] I'm so glad yeah it's wonderful it's

[1:12] wonderful I don't like this a house

[1:13] worth living definitely definitely and I

[1:18] think that's what your work really wakes

[1:20] up all up to so I wondered if you might

[1:23] obviously know part of your story but I

[1:26] wondered if you might take us back to a

[1:27] bit of the story about how the work

[1:30] began for you and share that with on

[1:33] those totems us out there who aren't

[1:36] totally familiar with your story maybe

[1:38] this is very new to them and love to

[1:41] dive into a piece of that story about

[1:43] how it all started and where you were in

[1:45] in your life at that point well I was

[1:47] very depressed clinically depressed and

[1:51] almost a decade more or less I don't

[1:54] know it was hard and and I would lie on

[2:00] the floor one morning just in a dead

[2:03] sleep and a cockroach called over my

[2:07] foot and I opened my eyes and all the

[2:10] suffering was gone all the depression

[2:12] was gone

[2:13] and and I saw in that moment that when I

[2:17] believed my thoughts I suffered and when

[2:20] I didn't believe them and that's what

[2:23] that moment showed me there was no

[2:25] suffering and that was the difference

[2:27] between suffering and no suffering so

[2:30] I've come to see that this is true for

[2:32] every human being when we believe our

[2:34] thoughts we suffer when we don't believe

[2:37] our thoughts we don't suffer and I'm

[2:39] talking about the thoughts that go

[2:40] against the heart and when we're in

[2:42] touch with our true nature which is what

[2:45] my work is all about you know the you

[2:47] know this interview everything I do it's

[2:50] about just passing on to others that

[2:53] there is a simple way and it's a

[2:55] practice I call the work and it's

[2:59] inquiry and a great a great mind on said

[3:07] that an unquestioned mind is not worth

[3:09] living and I've come to Susie that this

[3:12] is absolutely true if he was Socrates

[3:14] but in in my experience and the

[3:17] experience of millions of people it's

[3:19] really so we question what what we

[3:22] believe or we have to live out of that

[3:25] and if we're suffering we can't actually

[3:28] identify what we're thinking and

[3:30] believing and question it and this is

[3:37] this is what I think is so beautiful

[3:39] about the work is it's so simple and

[3:43] it's so profound and part of what I

[3:47] wanted to really dive into with you I

[3:49] recently heard you speaking you a

[3:53] recording of you and I think back from

[3:55] 2015 and you were talking into an

[3:57] experience you had where you were

[3:59] entering into the prison system and

[4:02] having these conversations with some men

[4:04] in the prison system and you said that

[4:08] it had been years since you'd left the

[4:10] world of duality and it had been years

[4:13] since you'd actually had a negative

[4:15] thought and why what I wanted to sort of

[4:19] dive in that was really profound for me

[4:21] because I have been living with a belief

[4:24] that we cannot control

[4:26] all the thoughts that enter our mind but

[4:28] we can create the space to question them

[4:31] and choose something more empowering but

[4:33] I wanted you to maybe clarify what you

[4:36] mean like it how do we get to a point

[4:38] where we don't it we don't even have the

[4:41] negative thought to question well you

[4:43] know if I believe it right well actually

[4:46] the work is meditation it's a practice

[4:49] and I invite people you know to daily

[4:51] practice where as we identify those

[4:54] thoughts that are so depressing or enemy

[4:59] making and sad making and we question

[5:05] them and and I really don't recall

[5:09] recall your question could you isolate

[5:12] it of course of course so I wanted to

[5:15] know sorry I I have a perspective of or

[5:18] I have had that where you know the trick

[5:20] is if I can go back to moment from what

[5:23] I heard from you I can respond this way

[5:25] it's not about getting rid of my

[5:27] thoughts it's about understanding my

[5:31] thoughts because if I don't understand

[5:33] my thoughts I can't understand people in

[5:36] my world my children my grandchildren my

[5:38] husband myself so if I question those

[5:43] thoughts they they lose their power and

[5:46] actually let's say if I had the thought

[5:51] oh this is this is very radical I don't

[5:54] know if I can go here or not but but

[5:57] before it well it would be like um this

[6:04] person doesn't care about me if I had

[6:06] that thought then that's not depressing

[6:08] because I questioned it I have an

[6:11] understanding within me so I would

[6:14] celebrate that person is thinking for

[6:16] themselves they have a right to their

[6:19] own conclusions they have a right to

[6:21] believe what they think they don't know

[6:23] me so it's not about me if state is if

[6:27] they believe they don't like me for

[6:29] example

[6:30] that's about them and what they're

[6:33] believing about me so that is not

[6:36] personal with me so if someone says I do

[6:39] like you at all then I am I stay

[6:44] connected

[6:46] I don't separate from that person I

[6:49] under and so they don't care about me

[6:54] ceases to be a thought in my head that I

[6:58] even want to get rid of because it

[7:01] ceases to be a negative experience so

[7:05] that is a very profound way to live out

[7:10] of out of life where the only thing the

[7:14] only thing in this world that had hurt

[7:16] me is what I'm thinking and believing

[7:19] about me about you about my world so

[7:23] that gives me 100% control and and and

[7:30] responsibility for my world for my life

[7:35] for me and I can tell you it's a much

[7:39] kind of world because I know what hell

[7:42] is I you know I came out of that

[7:45] ten-year spiral buy some state of grace

[7:49] and I didn't I didn't ask for it I well

[7:53] you know maybe I did because I was

[7:56] screaming at some point take me home and

[8:00] on that floor

[8:02] I was I was some I received a great gift

[8:05] and because I pass it on I'm it

[8:09] continues to expand my mind this

[8:12] wonderful mind I have a new book coming

[8:15] out this month or next month anyway it's

[8:18] on my website people can go to Amazon

[8:21] and find it what I'm describing really

[8:24] is a mind at home in itself and that's

[8:28] the name of the book and mind at home

[8:29] with itself and it doesn't if that is in

[8:33] mind that is no longer a war with itself

[8:36] so to understand what what you think is

[8:42] peace and to understand what you think

[8:45] is to understand what everyone says in a

[8:50] way that doesn't separate me it

[8:53] fearless state of mind in a fearless

[8:55] life as far as I know and I'm very open

[8:58] to whatever Life brings you know but so

[9:00] far so good and I absolutely on so I'm

[9:05] really taking all of this in and just

[9:08] feeling into it and it's already

[9:10] expanding my mind as well and I love

[9:14] that and well there's no prohibition

[9:16] there's no prohibition in it there's no

[9:20] no wall there's nothing to do except

[9:26] take our problems to paper and question

[9:29] them and of course directions for that

[9:31] are on the work calm is free and anyone

[9:35] can do this if their mind is open to it

[9:38] definitely and something that just

[9:41] popped into my mind was really asking

[9:44] you about identity because I hear from

[9:47] what you're saying is that that ability

[9:49] to dis identify from our thoughts and

[9:52] and that is what creates that freedom so

[9:55] that we're not triggered we're not at

[9:58] war with the people in our lives our

[10:00] selves and all things and I wondered

[10:03] what you know because it's I'm just

[10:06] trying to get my mind around it that

[10:08] whole concept of what like how do you

[10:11] see yourself if do you you know if we

[10:14] don't identify with you know our

[10:18] thoughts which is our kind of

[10:20] consciousness then what is our identity

[10:23] well you know we're not left with much

[10:26] and we're left with a lot because if my

[10:30] if my husband says I love you then then

[10:34] what he's thinking and about what he's

[10:36] thinking believing about me is the

[10:40] person I am to him so my children the

[10:45] same my friends the same people in my

[10:47] life the same what they're thinking and

[10:49] believing about me becomes my identity

[10:52] within them and if they don't care about

[10:55] me that would be painful if they do and

[11:00] because the me isn't personal and if

[11:03] they do care about me that is a that is

[11:06] wonderful thing it's the ability to care

[11:08] and again not personal with me but all

[11:11] my identities are held as a separate as

[11:14] a separate structure for everyone that

[11:17] knows me so so why would I bother with

[11:22] identity when I have so many it's like

[11:26] I'm I'm unnecessary as far as creating

[11:30] an identity because there's so many out

[11:32] there now if someone says can you hurt

[11:38] my feelings

[11:39] I immediately would say oh my goodness

[11:44] you know let's discuss that I don't want

[11:47] that in my life

[11:48] I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings

[11:50] so tell me specifically so we could talk

[11:53] that through and that grows me because

[11:56] if I have said or done something to

[11:59] cause another person harm they wake me

[12:02] up to it

[12:03] and in that I'm aware of what I was not

[12:07] aware of prior to that so there's no one

[12:10] in this world that does not serve my

[12:15] beautiful mind to expand this mind at

[12:18] home in itself to expand but on its it

[12:23] really is you know no identity necessary

[12:28] but if I if I look sweetheart if I if I

[12:31] look too it's like on this morning I was

[12:35] sitting in the home sitting in the

[12:37] kitchen was Stephen my husband and and I

[12:41] see that in my mind's eye you probably

[12:44] saw me in the kitchen with my husband

[12:46] just then and and you didn't even have

[12:48] to meet my husband but if you can see an

[12:51] image of my kitchen and you've never

[12:53] seen my kitchen but but you were there

[12:56] so if I if it when when I see that in my

[13:00] mind's eye when I'm discussing that with

[13:03] you if you know I look at that's not my

[13:06] identity that's that is that is an image

[13:11] of that is an image it's not real so I

[13:15] am the one speaking to you here now and

[13:18] that's all the

[13:20] entity I need to hold when a mind is at

[13:23] home with itself no identity is

[13:26] necessary it is just it is just wide

[13:30] open to everything because that's what

[13:33] love is just an experience and so

[13:38] anything that would interfere with that

[13:41] in my life I question it and and I

[13:46] invite the world to that because

[13:48] suffering is optional Wow I love that

[13:54] and you know something that sort of came

[13:56] to mind there you know was really a

[14:00] question around being intentional so I

[14:03] could I could I you know if we question

[14:08] our thought and we don't identify with

[14:10] our thoughts and we ultimately want to

[14:13] stay open to the experience of

[14:15] everything that happens in this moment

[14:17] without identifying with it and that

[14:19] ultimately is love then you know how how

[14:24] do we how do we decide when to be more

[14:27] intentional is it outside well in

[14:29] general just living that way is nothing

[14:32] I could do

[14:34] it's nothing that I could decide or do

[14:38] it's it's what I'm left with

[14:41] it's the consciousness I'm left with the

[14:44] Enlightenment I'm left with after

[14:46] inquiry so this is not something I could

[14:50] control this is not something again that

[14:54] I could do it's something that that it's

[15:00] the way my mind works

[15:01] after inquiry all the inquiry that I've

[15:05] done in in my life and you know just

[15:08] sitting in that practice of awareness

[15:10] until finally not just me but a lot of

[15:14] people it's ongoing because the inquiry

[15:17] is alive in them the practice is alive

[15:20] in them and it's not just sitting in the

[15:23] mornings meditating on on he betrayed me

[15:28] is it true

[15:31] so would you say that the the inquiry is

[15:34] a way of theme it's you know we're all

[15:38] being it's just are we happy in it

[15:41] now the be on the thing you may be

[15:46] looking for then I'm sensing is how can

[15:50] we have a better life a more creative

[15:54] fabulous life

[15:56] every time we question our mind we it's

[16:02] like less space junk is out of those out

[16:05] of the way the state news in other words

[16:08] the things we find that are not true for

[16:10] each of us individually you know

[16:12] ourselves the one inquiring but when we

[16:16] start you know it clears the head full

[16:19] of junk full of fake news and in that

[16:24] the choices we make are brilliant they

[16:29] come out of knowledge and pure

[16:31] creativity and are doable they're not

[16:34] beyond us and the directions are all

[16:37] there that's knowledge but all these

[16:40] things we're thinking and believing to

[16:42] create the false self you know III me me

[16:46] me I I is the the the clutter that that

[16:54] keeps us from the awareness all that

[16:57] knowledge that is always there so

[17:00] through inquiry our choices become

[17:05] clearer and and I have I have come to

[17:10] see beyond a doubt that this universe is

[17:13] friendly and wisdom wouldn't take me it

[17:18] you know wisdom so clear you don't even

[17:20] have to second-guess it it's wisdom is

[17:22] wisdom but it's having how to be how to

[17:26] give it enough space to reveal itself to

[17:28] us because it's ready it's just waiting

[17:32] for an open mind and I can certainly

[17:34] attest to that but you know to that my

[17:37] life does mmm

[17:41] and I love I love the concept of the

[17:44] false self would you say that that's

[17:46] what people refer to as the ego and just

[17:49] the chatter that you go to

[17:50] unquestionably yeah the ego uh-huh and

[17:53] and what we're believing creates the ego

[17:56] so when we question what we're believing

[17:58] and it sheds its skin like a snake only

[18:04] at a much quicker rate and it just

[18:06] leaves us enlightened to what is true

[18:10] and what is not for ourselves this is

[18:13] personal work and I really I love that

[18:20] you said that you've come to believe

[18:21] that it you know you've come to

[18:23] experience that it is a friendly

[18:25] universe and when you speak into that do

[18:28] you do meet you know because so many of

[18:30] us are suffering because we're attached

[18:33] to these memories and these projections

[18:35] of our past and how bad that was and

[18:39] yeah and it's a projection and do you

[18:42] mean to say that we can find the

[18:45] positivity in that or do you mean to say

[18:47] that it's just it no longer exists well

[18:50] what I what I mean to say by that I

[18:53] think that is is is really really

[18:56] valuable it's just to identify what we

[18:59] were thinking and believing in those

[19:01] situations that just haunt us and to

[19:05] write them down and to just get quiet

[19:08] and sit in the practice and again you

[19:10] know I'm all over YouTube and and me and

[19:14] the work calm how to do the work

[19:17] absolutely free and that's a process but

[19:22] I've used myself and had tremendous

[19:24] value in and and particularly with some

[19:28] clients that I've worked with just to

[19:30] shift their perspective and actually

[19:32] create that space and it's so freeing so

[19:36] work and I I wonder if we could um give

[19:41] the audience just I know you've done

[19:42] this a million million times and I'm

[19:45] sure it doesn't

[19:46] you know yet but is you serving this

[19:48] beautiful mission but I wondered if we

[19:50] could give our audience a short example

[19:53] as to

[19:54] what inquiry looks like with those

[19:56] questions and definitely invite them to

[19:59] go to the work calm and check out you've

[20:02] got some great tutorial videos which is

[20:04] no easy to follow along with but an

[20:07] example that I wanted to to see if we

[20:12] could utilize this because this is

[20:14] something that's come up for a client of

[20:16] mine who appears to be trapped in you

[20:19] know that story and I wondered if you

[20:22] could explain his story that he is

[20:25] currently sort of really trying to move

[20:28] through is that he he really doesn't

[20:31] believe that he deserves success yeah so

[20:35] I wondered if we could use that as a

[20:37] potential example as to and utilize the

[20:41] work well first I would ask myself is it

[20:44] true that I don't deserve success now

[20:48] first I'd have to define success because

[20:52] if it should all over the map then I'm

[20:55] not even close to what I want you know

[20:59] I'm imagining that success is a good

[21:02] thing but I'm not sure I want it you

[21:06] know so versed on my question I want

[21:09] success and define it if he's talking

[21:12] about money and position and power and

[21:14] and you know all those things he'd have

[21:18] to define it and or if he just enters

[21:21] interested in freedom that would be

[21:24] another definition of success so I don't

[21:28] know what so how would you define it

[21:31] knowing him mm-hmm

[21:33] so let's go you're not hurting for unit

[21:36] of course so this would be more related

[21:39] to business success so I would assume

[21:41] success in in business financial success

[21:45] wealth creation let's use that it's okay

[21:48] only the deafening so I don't deserve to

[21:51] be wealthy he may wanted to to look at

[21:57] it that way or if he has more in that

[22:00] package of what do you think somebody

[22:02] see success to stay with I don't deserve

[22:05] to be I don't deserve success

[22:07] so the question is is it true that I

[22:11] don't deserve success and then just do

[22:14] just you know I've gotta shift this you

[22:19] know I where I would go with this with

[22:21] him is I want success is it true just

[22:26] straight up because it's money its

[22:28] business it is it's like that that's

[22:31] what we're we're pointing to here so I

[22:34] want success is it true and that you

[22:40] know there's a lot of entailed in-depth

[22:44] you know like I want success is it true

[22:50] what a question can you see everything

[22:54] in there I mean how much of in there

[22:57] it's a lot especially if you have a

[23:01] family yeah it's a lot to consider

[23:05] especially if you already have a job

[23:08] I want success is it true it's a huge

[23:13] question to fit in and then I want

[23:17] success and then just to close your eyes

[23:20] it's meditate on this next question how

[23:25] do you react or I'll say it this way if

[23:28] that were my thoughts how do I react

[23:30] what happens when I believe the thought

[23:32] I want success okay so I meditate on

[23:36] that and I see first I see that my mind

[23:41] compares me unsuccessful me with all

[23:48] those wealthy people I see them there in

[23:50] their suits and they're they're

[23:52] empowered and and they're lecturing or

[23:56] they're getting in there they're they're

[24:03] going up their elevator in their very

[24:05] own building and and then I compare it

[24:10] with me me who has no success okay so

[24:15] you see those images there's all the

[24:17] successful people and then there's me

[24:20] now people with fabulous business

[24:23] fortune 500 businesses do exactly the

[24:29] same thing and it's not fun the mind

[24:36] compares that's how the ego that's

[24:39] that's how the ego works so I just am

[24:42] meditating on how I react when I believe

[24:45] the thought I see all those successful

[24:47] people and and I see me and I am NOT

[24:51] looking good and that's depressing and

[24:54] then I see me trying harder and harder I

[24:56] see me failing and failing and failing

[24:58] when I believe the thought I want

[25:00] success and and I witnessed that and and

[25:05] I see my money's running out and I see

[25:08] what I've invested and I'm really and I

[25:11] see me trying again I want success so I

[25:18] explore that and then he is so telling

[25:23] no wonder I'm exhausted at night you

[25:27] know just that's emotional and that's

[25:30] going on all the time for these for

[25:33] people who want success and for people

[25:35] who want more success that are already

[25:37] the world would say you're successful

[25:39] stop now but that's not how it works

[25:44] usually we want you know I want to be

[25:47] more successful so on so then that's

[25:52] that fourth question who would I be

[25:54] without this not just meditating on that

[25:58] who would I be without the thought I

[26:01] want to be successful without that

[26:05] thought and then I will examine my life

[26:07] - that thought superimposed into my life

[26:11] and just meditate on that then I'd turn

[26:16] it around and for your audience we're

[26:18] just going through is it true how do you

[26:21] react when you believe the thought and

[26:22] who would you be without it just those

[26:24] those questions and then we find

[26:27] opposites I want success to run I don't

[26:29] want success okay so

[26:33] what does that mean to you open your

[26:35] mind what does that mean to you and

[26:36] that's radical for someone who's who has

[26:38] been worshipping I want success and we

[26:42] learned that as children you know in its

[26:45] own way so I don't want success okay one

[26:49] okay let's see that would be time away

[26:50] from my family potentially I don't want

[26:54] success oh my gosh it would require me

[26:57] to hire and fire and on and on it I mean

[27:04] I just see this onslaught coming on me

[27:06] and maybe that's okay with me but it's

[27:11] also showing me what I need to be

[27:15] successful I mean there's a whole list

[27:19] of things here and it's like a blueprint

[27:22] for what you already know and didn't

[27:26] know that you knew and then you start

[27:29] interviewing people who are successful

[27:31] and for people who work for successful

[27:33] people and you start to learn you start

[27:36] to grow and when that when that stuff is

[27:39] inside of you you're being educated

[27:41] because your mind is open I mean there's

[27:43] no limit to where just sitting in just

[27:46] one one concept there's no limit to

[27:51] where it can take you if you really get

[27:53] still and sit in inquire in those

[27:56] turnarounds and I don't want success and

[27:58] it could be that you just laugh and say

[28:01] I want no piece of that you know I just

[28:04] I and I I have a you know without that

[28:07] thought I have an amazing life some

[28:11] people really do and because they

[28:16] believe that they want the success it

[28:19] wipes out their awareness that they

[28:21] already have a success if they're if

[28:24] their goal is a happy life mm-hmm all

[28:28] kinds of options in there and we find

[28:30] what we find but it's self education and

[28:33] we're tapping into that wisdom all the

[28:35] time when we get still like that shows

[28:39] and and do you find that it's more

[28:43] difficult for the people that you work

[28:45] with and you take through this

[28:46] experience

[28:47] and when they have had like a actual

[28:50] past experience or is it just the same

[28:54] is it really just the same no matter

[28:55] whether they've had an experience with

[28:58] now if they had all that ignite would

[28:59] say if they had all that success and

[29:01] they lost it you maybe they had all the

[29:04] great okay but I think so it would be

[29:06] exactly the same it would be exactly the

[29:10] same inquiry because you know when you

[29:12] get to on I want success is it true and

[29:15] they sit in there they go WOW know what

[29:20] to just or they or they Michael you know

[29:23] yes and then you just move to the next

[29:26] how do you react when you believe the

[29:28] thought you know through depression

[29:33] frustration yeah mm-hmm

[29:37] and I guess something that just popped

[29:39] up and I think I'd need to probably

[29:41] meditate on this myself but since we're

[29:44] in this conversation I'd love to ask it

[29:46] of you and do you believe any of your

[29:50] thoughts or is it just do you choose to

[29:52] believe the thoughts that are empowering

[29:55] coming from that place of love well I

[29:57] can move to believe a thought I I do or

[30:01] I don't so that's really relieving

[30:04] that's a relief I don't have a choice

[30:07] whether I you know thoughts come through

[30:11] and and I believe them are I don't know

[30:16] choice and if they if they depress me or

[30:20] or separate me from another human being

[30:22] or they're hurtful in any way they go

[30:25] against my heart basically then um then

[30:28] I put them on paper and that's my

[30:32] meditation for the morning all right

[30:36] just doing where I tell you it right

[30:37] away

[30:39] hmm so the okay so I just want to love

[30:44] to hear you talk a little bit deeper

[30:46] into that like I said I need to go away

[30:48] and meditate on this I think that so we

[30:51] do not have a choice as to believing our

[30:55] thoughts or not it's not as they're not

[30:57] as they're happening

[31:00] we believed on we believe them or we

[31:03] questioned them there is no other choice

[31:06] okay okay and oh alright yeah I

[31:10] definitely need to be meditating on them

[31:12] going to be that's my work for us

[31:14] through our call today and I wanted to

[31:18] ask you another question about you know

[31:21] how could somebody and I'm sure it will

[31:24] be the same process but how could

[31:25] somebody battling sort of suicidal

[31:27] thoughts move and transition into a

[31:31] state of joy or end that buffering from

[31:35] the ice I suggest to people that they

[31:38] just start with on moments in time that

[31:42] recur to them with a mother father

[31:45] sister brother just the basics

[31:47] worksheets on on on those moments in

[31:50] time that were so sad or hurtful or or

[31:54] you know that are hurtful and and just

[32:00] do worksheets on them just start there

[32:01] and depression live because it's sort of

[32:06] they're in that position where they're

[32:08] looking to any suffering on the physical

[32:10] level where you know that that that

[32:13] doesn't work it doesn't work and here's

[32:16] why there's no one to realize that they

[32:21] don't hurt anymore yeah yeah and you

[32:31] know I would I was so suicidal and all

[32:34] those years and on I didn't figure this

[32:38] out until until much later you know

[32:42] after the depression but they're really

[32:45] if I had kill myself who's there to

[32:47] realize it I'm not there to realize it

[32:50] so what good does it do and there is a

[32:54] way through on those those sons wanting

[32:59] to die and the way the way out is to go

[33:03] in and that's my experience and and and

[33:08] I have worked with many people you

[33:11] these left 28 years and in the same for

[33:16] them wonderful and I wondered if you

[33:23] could talk into how we could how we

[33:29] could use the work specifically in our

[33:32] relationships and and enhancing those

[33:36] relationships and I wonder if you could

[33:39] give an example either from your own

[33:41] life force or the lives of the people

[33:43] that you work with in terms of how they

[33:46] have gone from a relation an ego-driven

[33:49] relationship to a truly loving

[33:52] relationship well to first realize that

[33:54] the person you live with that protect

[33:56] that person that relationship that you

[34:00] pointed out that that's I'll just put it

[34:05] from here because it's my experience on

[34:07] that that's my teacher the people I live

[34:11] with or my partner let's say is my

[34:14] teacher so anytime I'm angry my partner

[34:17] are frustrated or feel hurt I judge my

[34:21] partner write it down ask for question

[34:26] with every every complaint there and I

[34:29] turn it around and it lightens my my it

[34:34] lightens the identity I put on my

[34:38] partner so when I see him I see him as

[34:42] innocent I see him without that post-it

[34:47] that I had planted on him

[34:50] and so our on the people we live with

[34:53] they are our teachers everything in life

[34:55] is to wake us up the people in the you

[34:59] know in our partnerships are romantic

[35:02] relationships our the people in their

[35:06] lives they're there to wake us up every

[35:08] catastrophe in the world is about waking

[35:10] up everything is there's nothing that

[35:13] isn't if I break my arm it's to support

[35:17] me to wake up whatever push needs to

[35:20] happen happens and we all need different

[35:23] pushes we need to lose our

[35:24] with our legs or a partner or we need

[35:28] our our car repossessed whatever it is

[35:33] it's about waking us up and when I

[35:36] discovered that you know if inquiry is

[35:38] the fast-track mm-hmm and Katie are you

[35:45] still waking up do you still have those

[35:47] 90 motions mind is your mind is it mind

[35:50] is infinite it's infinite it ends and

[35:54] it's an unending beautiful beautiful

[35:58] beautiful experience there's nothing to

[36:01] stop it it doesn't get stuck on he

[36:03] doesn't care about me I need this I want

[36:06] that or there's something wrong with you

[36:08] and there's something wrong with me it

[36:10] doesn't get stuck and dwell on those

[36:12] places when it's awake it just is free

[36:16] to continue to create out of none of

[36:19] this just pure well you know what I love

[36:22] is a happy life a happy life without end

[36:28] and you know freedom is our birthright

[36:31] it's for everyone and anyone with an

[36:34] open mind can question what they're

[36:36] believing because it keeps us stuck in

[36:39] the illusion of time it keeps us stuck

[36:42] in time it holds us back mm-hmm and do

[36:49] you you know do you think of us as you

[36:52] know a part of what I've gained value

[36:54] from that inquiry and particularly when

[36:57] I do to turn around is sort of owning

[37:00] everything within me you know instead of

[37:04] separating different traits within

[37:07] myself and witnessing different traits

[37:09] in another person and generating and

[37:10] disempowering belief and would you say

[37:14] that part of coming to that place of

[37:17] freedom and open-mindedness is accepting

[37:20] so that we are all things every single

[37:22] one of us is everything well if it comes

[37:25] out of my head if it comes out of my

[37:27] head that's the moment it's created and

[37:30] if I don't love it I can always question

[37:33] what I'm thinking and believing

[37:36] mmm beautiful and if people be unruly if

[37:42] people are tell me something then I

[37:46] understand that that that's where

[37:49] they're at and I understand that from

[37:51] experience and I but I'm very well aware

[37:56] of my own and and that's the one that

[38:00] matters and if it's not working for me

[38:02] it belongs on paper so that I can

[38:04] question it soon again for your audience

[38:07] and when I say write it down on paper on

[38:10] what I mean is that's what the thought

[38:13] is stable like if I had the thought he

[38:16] betrayed me I would write that down

[38:18] because the ego will want to shift and

[38:20] say that's not what I really meant I

[38:21] didn't well it really is more like and

[38:24] you know like that so it stabilizes once

[38:27] we write it down and then we carry it

[38:29] with those four questions and turn

[38:30] around all the way through and we can

[38:33] always do the others later I love that

[38:37] and you know I had a question that I

[38:39] really wanted to dive into with you and

[38:41] I'm now starting to question what I'm

[38:45] trying to question you about and I

[38:48] really want to run replying you and it's

[38:50] really referring to religion so at the

[38:52] moment I'm actually obviously I'm from

[38:54] Australia but I'm here in the States and

[38:56] only in Salt Lake City and it is got a

[38:59] really high population of Mormons and

[39:01] I'm really diving I'm going to the

[39:04] churches I'm really expanding my mind

[39:06] and my awareness as to what they believe

[39:09] I'm getting in their belief system so

[39:11] that I can gain this better

[39:12] understanding and one thing that I have

[39:15] found that I need to do the work on is

[39:18] feeling sorry for some people who feel

[39:22] like they are trapped because I'm

[39:24] hearing experiences from them where they

[39:26] are starting to question the belief

[39:28] system that they have grown up in and I

[39:32] wondered if I could ask how you would

[39:35] respond to somebody say they came to you

[39:37] and they were in this religious belief

[39:39] system their entire life and they've

[39:41] gotten to this point where they've they

[39:43] have asked questions of the religion and

[39:46] the beliefs and they've gotten to a

[39:48] point where they're just

[39:50] constantly been told to have faith don't

[39:52] think question have trust have faith and

[39:55] they have so much internal doubt and

[39:59] turmoil and suffering based on not

[40:02] feeling limited in their ability to

[40:04] question so I wondered how would you how

[40:07] would you help and support somebody who

[40:10] is in that position in their life where

[40:12] they're they want to question but they

[40:15] feel trapped by that rainfall of it's a

[40:18] long question you know no one has the

[40:21] question what they think it's you know

[40:24] this is on you know it's not mandatory

[40:29] no one has to do that and everyone has

[40:32] their own path and every path leads to

[40:34] the same place so ultimately that's just

[40:37] how it is

[40:38] but on if someone came to me and I offer

[40:44] inquiry because that's what squirts for

[40:47] me that's that's my path so when people

[40:49] come to me you know they're there

[40:51] they're aware of that and so I would

[40:56] just have them fill in a

[40:59] judge-your-neighbor worksheet on a

[41:00] situation having to do with anything and

[41:03] it had to do with the church then to put

[41:07] their thoughts down what are they

[41:08] thinking and believing about the church

[41:10] or or its people and then we would go

[41:16] through inquiry and it would bring them

[41:19] closer to those people they would they

[41:24] would remain in the church or they

[41:25] wouldn't that's not the point but they

[41:28] would be closer to those people they

[41:33] would not be confused or

[41:36] people critical or worried they'd be you

[41:42] know we don't leave the people we love

[41:44] like the people in my life I don't leave

[41:47] the people I love on they can leave me

[41:51] but I don't leave them in my heart

[41:54] everyone is welcome and I'm very well

[41:58] aware of that but I understand when

[42:01] people

[42:03] um oppose me because they're believing

[42:07] their thoughts about me and so I

[42:10] understand all separation from

[42:12] experience but um you know it's always

[42:16] for me when someone comes to me it's a

[42:18] judge-your-neighbor worksheet but I

[42:20] don't um when I when we sit in the

[42:25] question there's not a goal other than

[42:28] to see what is really true for that

[42:33] individual and to keep me out of it and

[42:38] you know it's otherwise what what value

[42:41] is it you know it is the truth assets is

[42:44] free and ultimately it you know for me

[42:49] freedom is like being brought to love

[42:53] and there's nothing outside of that hmm

[42:58] and and I'm getting from you that it's

[43:02] in our questioning that we get to love

[43:04] so our questioning builds the connection

[43:07] and it is our lack of questioning that

[43:11] creates that separation and comparison

[43:14] yeah yeah and and and love I think it

[43:21] could be that everyone has a different

[43:23] definition of that so that's something

[43:26] that everyone has to to look to for

[43:30] themselves I like the word happiness

[43:32] because it's something that we're it's

[43:34] more relatable to us you know and on

[43:38] that judge-your-neighbor worksheet on

[43:40] the word calm it's a statement for it's

[43:46] on in that situation what do you want in

[43:50] in this case the the church for that

[43:53] person what would make you happy what do

[43:58] you want for what you need for those

[43:59] from those people or that church or that

[44:02] religion to be happy and then you list

[44:06] your thoughts there and you question

[44:08] them and turn them around and it really

[44:11] is you know there's a great experience

[44:15] of love there and

[44:16] and that entire worksheet as we sit in

[44:19] it but it's a it brings us together on

[44:23] with the world and we're no longer at

[44:26] war with the world and what they believe

[44:29] and mmm you know when we're free the

[44:35] people around us are free they're free

[44:38] to say what they want and be who they

[44:41] are and it's and in that I grow and

[44:45] expand because they're always teaching

[44:47] me I'm responsible for what I believe

[44:50] and it's like I didn't believe on

[44:55] purpose but I can identify what I

[44:59] believe when it goes against my heart

[45:02] and I can question it and and that's

[45:06] been the process and it's a beautiful

[45:09] process picture is and that just brings

[45:13] me to a question that one of our

[45:15] audience members wanted to ask you from

[45:19] Brian he said that he's heard heard you

[45:22] speak into defensiveness as the first

[45:25] act of war defend he wonder if you could

[45:28] elaborate yeah defendant I often say

[45:31] defense is the first act of war so on

[45:35] and I still see that that's so in my

[45:39] life so if someone says Katie you are

[45:45] wrong and I take that in and we can have

[45:47] a discussion if I'm not aware of what I

[45:49] said or did that was wrong to my own

[45:52] line then that person can point it out

[45:55] to me so that's a discussion so now

[45:59] we're discussing it and it's something

[46:00] that I can identify with or I can watch

[46:02] out for and so we've had a great

[46:06] discussion when we resolved it that way

[46:09] and it leaves us both opened but if we

[46:13] look at the same thing someone says

[46:16] Katie you're wrong and I say I'm wrong

[46:18] you think I'm wrong how dare you say

[46:20] that to me you know and you're the one

[46:23] that's wrong and that was rude

[46:25] you know I was just stating my point of

[46:27] view and I have a right to that okay

[46:29] so who started the war it was me

[46:32] defensive the first act of war all they

[46:35] said if catiua wrong that's all they had

[46:38] and who started World War you know how

[46:41] dare you how dare you judge me well it

[46:46] was me I started the war so it's not it

[46:49] is not it's not in the first that's in a

[46:52] second and when we look to ourselves

[46:53] it's in the first I started the war and

[46:59] if not what you referred to is sort of

[47:01] the person who came to you and said

[47:03] Katie you're wrong

[47:04] as sort of you know you know being

[47:07] either the student or the teacher do you

[47:09] ask the question okay tell me more about

[47:11] that what does that mean or well if it

[47:14] reason if I can see clearly where I was

[47:17] wrong then we can both have a good laugh

[47:18] because you know I can say oh my gosh I

[47:21] did I'm sincerely sorry and how can I

[47:26] make that right with you and we laugh

[47:28] and we go on and make a right where I

[47:30] can so there's there's no stuck place

[47:34] there's you know it's it's not this a

[47:36] place where mold grows and in resentment

[47:41] and bitterness and shriveling the next

[47:45] time you see that person or gossiping

[47:47] about that person it's all about growing

[47:50] and not getting stuck an inquiry into

[47:53] them is the it's a it's a harmless way

[47:58] there's no there's nothing to believe or

[48:02] not to believe in it it's all about

[48:04] awareness hmm that's beautiful

[48:08] I'm sure he'll really appreciate your

[48:11] elaboration on that as well and another

[48:13] question that we had from another

[48:16] follower Alexandria she actually wanted

[48:19] to ask you about impacts and she wanted

[48:23] to know how can an empath connect with

[48:25] others but also keep themselves in a

[48:27] good state with so many others energies

[48:30] and motives and emotions swirling around

[48:32] the relational atmosphere so how would

[48:36] you sort of an

[48:38] in terms of somebody who identifies

[48:40] themselves as an empath you know I think

[48:44] there's a you know I discussed this and

[48:49] a mind at home with itself I'm sure I do

[48:56] but if I think I know what you're like

[49:00] you're telling me something and I'm

[49:02] feeling horrible and you're being just

[49:07] authentic and sweet and dear and you're

[49:10] in so much trouble and I'm experiencing

[49:13] that as I work with you then that is

[49:16] just all about me I am thinking I know

[49:20] how you feel and when I work with people

[49:24] I know I don't know how you feel but I

[49:28] can only imagine how you feel so in that

[49:32] I can just rip myself to shreds if I

[49:36] weren't more aware that you know if I'm

[49:39] sitting with you it's a it's about how

[49:41] can I help you

[49:42] rather how can it rather than how can I

[49:45] just sit there in my ego thinking I know

[49:48] what you really feel and what you really

[49:51] think and it's so subtle we don't even

[49:54] know we're doing it and it can just wipe

[49:57] out a beautiful teacher take you know

[50:02] just burn them out but um so I suggest

[50:07] you inquiry you know I recommend inquiry

[50:09] and to know yourself a little more

[50:12] deeply and when you know yourself you

[50:14] know you know that you don't know and

[50:19] that don't know that don't know mind is

[50:21] my favorite when you understand the

[50:23] universe's friendly you never need to

[50:25] know anything ever again and the mind is

[50:28] open and there's all the direction in

[50:31] the world is in that mind and it's in

[50:34] it's um it's a beautiful mind that don't

[50:39] know my it never has to worry or project

[50:43] a future its son it understands that

[50:46] this is a beautiful world it is given to

[50:50] us

[50:51] - wake up - but what was believing about

[50:56] the world could use a little work

[51:00] and I definitely see so many of us

[51:03] suffering because of what who were

[51:05] identifying as and I wonder you know if

[51:09] somebody asked you Katie - to tell them

[51:13] who you are how would you answer that

[51:15] question you know I answer it from the

[51:17] birth certificate biron Kathleen and my

[51:21] marriage certificate Byron Cathleen

[51:22] Mitchell and people people don't just

[51:26] say and do you believe it so you know

[51:29] I'm like in the world but not so much of

[51:34] that world I guess you could say uh-huh

[51:38] this is the interesting thing to ponder

[51:41] I think when you have so many so many

[51:44] things that we identify ourselves as and

[51:46] then yeah my question myself I'm I can

[51:50] have the birth certificate in front of

[51:52] me I'm Byron Kathleen is it true and

[51:55] just fit in those four questions and

[51:57] turn around it will blow your mind about

[52:00] who and what you you really are as

[52:04] compared to who and what you think or

[52:07] believe you are it's a those are two

[52:10] different worlds those are one is the

[52:14] world of imagination and the other is is

[52:17] pure grace and and um and knowledge just

[52:26] just um your creativity yeah most

[52:36] definitely and Katie it seems such a

[52:39] pleasure getting to connect me and I do

[52:41] have I do have a final question down but

[52:45] before I do that I would absolutely love

[52:47] for you to share with our audience out

[52:50] there you did mention that you've got a

[52:52] book that's about to come out our mind

[52:54] at home with itself and you've got your

[52:57] website the works calm where people can

[52:59] access the questions for inquiry

[53:02] how can is that best for people to

[53:05] connect with you and dive further into

[53:06] your work is there any way you'd like to

[53:08] direct our audience well I think that's

[53:11] the best way and the work of course is

[53:15] in mind at home with itself as well and

[53:20] people who have who have read the book

[53:24] ahead of publishing our are they think

[53:30] it's an important book and that's the

[53:33] only way I can talk about it and so the

[53:37] work is there and how to do the work on

[53:40] you know for for those people listening

[53:44] now that don't want to wait for that

[53:47] book just go to the work calm and also

[53:50] we have certified facilitators on the

[53:53] word calm that are in the process and

[53:57] they're there and they speak so many

[53:59] different languages and they're so

[54:01] precious and so good and so you can have

[54:06] also we have a free helpline where you

[54:10] can call you don't have to give your

[54:12] name you just call have a worksheet

[54:14] written and ready and they'll do the

[54:17] work with you and and it's um it's a

[54:20] beautiful gift these people often mmm

[54:25] it's wonderful wonderful and the final

[54:28] question that I have for you and it

[54:31] might send one in and and what not after

[54:34] our conversation but I wanted to ask you

[54:37] if you could instill one belief into the

[54:41] minds of everybody in the world right

[54:44] now what what would that belief be that

[54:48] if you're suffering there's a way to end

[54:52] that suffering and that way is to

[54:56] identify what you're thinking and

[54:59] believing it was so powerful about

[55:02] yourself another person and write it

[55:07] down and question it

[55:11] that's beautiful beautiful Katie and I

[55:14] just want to just acknowledge just how

[55:17] beautiful this you know last hour is

[55:19] been to just share this and I feel my

[55:22] mind is expanded already and I am sure

[55:24] that the audience everybody listening

[55:27] would have got so much value from what

[55:30] you've shared with us all today and I

[55:32] just really want to show some

[55:34] appreciation for the work that you do

[55:36] and have done and continue to do in the

[55:38] world

[55:40] it is completely life transforming and

[55:42] acts gives people access to true

[55:45] happiness in their lives so so much

[55:48] appreciation for you and I'm coming to

[55:50] Salt Lake City soon oh I know I know I'm

[55:54] thinking about extending my trip so that

[55:57] I can go okay you know the days on that

[56:00] event anyway it's like it's on it's on

[56:04] my calendar at the word calm for those

[56:06] people who hear this before the event

[56:09] and are interested and yeah I'm very

[56:11] high lighted about that it's like going

[56:14] home again i i'd i love going to Salt

[56:18] Lake City and in pain I will clear the

[56:23] way beautiful way yes I know you like

[56:26] the mountains I'm currently looking out

[56:28] over the mountains and done it's a

[56:30] special special place though I will have

[56:32] those dates all linked up when for our

[56:35] audience so that they can check that out

[56:37] and definitely get in touch with you and

[56:40] the work that you're doing in the world

[56:41] thank you so so much

[56:43] Thank You Vanessa and thank you for your

[56:46] efforts and contribution and making this

[56:49] a beautiful world thank you so much I

[56:53] bye for now

AuthorByron Katie

American author and teacher of "The Work" — a method of self-inquiry consisting of four questions (Is it true? Can you absolutely know it's true? How do you react when you believe…

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Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

Is it possible to stop having negative thoughts, or can we only learn to question them?

According to Katie, negative thoughts naturally cease to arise once the beliefs beneath them are questioned and understood through the Work. She describes having not had negative thoughts in years—not through suppression, but because the underlying false beliefs have been examined and their power dissolved. The process is cumulative: each time you question a limiting belief, it loses its grip on the mind.

How does Byron Katie's method differ from positive thinking or cognitive reframing?

Katie's Work is not about replacing negative thoughts with positive ones or reframing to feel better. Instead, it involves investigating whether a thought is actually true. When you genuinely question a belief and see it is false, you don't need to replace it—it simply loses power. The clarity that remains is not forced or artificial; it emerges naturally from honest inquiry.

What does it mean that suffering is optional, and how is that practical advice for real problems?

Katie distinguishes between pain (what happens) and suffering (what we think about what happens). Real difficulties exist, but the additional layer of suffering comes from believing thoughts like 'this shouldn't be happening' or 'this means something is wrong with me.' When these thoughts are questioned, the mind can respond to the actual situation without the added distress of resistance and judgment.

If I don't identify with my thoughts, who am I?

Katie explains that identity is relational—you are what others think and believe about you within their minds, and internally you are simply the awareness present in this moment. When the mind stops clinging to self-concepts and images, it becomes open and available. This is not emptiness but freedom—'just wide open to everything, because that's what love is.'

Can the Work help with depression and clinical mental health issues?

Katie emerged from her own clinical depression through this realization. She suggests that depression arises and is maintained by believing thoughts that contradict reality. By examining and questioning these thoughts, the underlying peace can return. The Work is not a replacement for medical care, but Katie's example shows it can address the mental patterns that perpetuate emotional suffering.

How can anger in relationships actually be helpful instead of destructive?

When anger arises, Katie suggests it points to a belief worth examining. Your partner's behavior that triggers you is 'showing you something'—a limiting assumption you hold. Rather than seeing anger as a problem, you can use it as an invitation to inquiry. This transforms conflict from something destructive into a path to greater self-knowledge and freedom.

What is the difference between the Work and meditation?

Katie describes the Work as a form of meditation—a structured, daily practice of inquiry. Rather than focusing on breath or mantra, the Work focuses your attention on examining thoughts you write down. The goal is the same as meditation: a clear, open mind. But the method is more active, involving specific questions designed to test the truth of your beliefs.

How long does it take to see results from the Work?

Katie indicates that results can be immediate—when you genuinely question a thought and see it's false, the suffering from it dissolves at once. However, since the mind has been conditioned with many beliefs over a lifetime, the practice is cumulative. Daily use of the Work gradually clears more and more mental clutter, leading to increasing freedom and access to natural wisdom.